Batteries discarded at end of life?

[TESLACYBERPUNK]

How Tesla is planning to service the "new batteries" if ever needed ???

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[ajdelange]

Shred them up and recover the metals.

 

[EVCanuck]

Since these new battery packs are supposed to be at least 50% cheaper than current ones it will make less sense to service them.
I believe that the rate of failure of a new battery pack will be very low (maybe even lower than for the current battery packs, since less complexity) and in those rare instances when it fails under warranty the replacement cost will totally justify all other technological/cost benefits

 

[ajdelange]

If the battery is built the way Sandy Munroe thinks it will be (cells embeded in a block of epoxy) it will be unserviceable. But it won't be taken to a landfill. It will be sent for recycling thus recovering the useful and, in some cases quite rare, metals it contains. Doing that helps reduce the cost of the new battery pack which will be assembled from those metals.

 

[Crissa]

Even if the pack itself is unserviceable, it should be replaceable.

-Crissa

 

[ldjessee]

I have seen people pry and chisel things out of epoxy, especially if they think it is worth it.

Also, not all epoxies are created the same. Some are actually easy to work with... or else I have been lied to by all those YouTube videos of woodworkers turning wood and epoxy pieces on their lathe.

 

[ajdelange]

I have seen people pry and chisel things out of epoxy, especially if they think it is worth it.

And if there are any of those who can get there hands on the packs (i.e. from wreckers) they will probably try to do that. But Tesla probably won't. They'll pop in a new one and send the old one off to Straubel because that route is the most cost effective one.

Also, not all epoxies are created the same. Some are actually easy to work with... or else I have been lied to by all those YouTube videos of woodworkers turning wood and epoxy pieces on their lathe.

If Munroe is right the battery will be part of the basic structure of the car. It will be made of pretty tough stuff.

I have an air handler for which I chose the ECM blower motor option (mistake). This failed. Everyone in the HVAC industry (and plenty of other people too who aren't including me) know that when these motors fail 99% of the time it is the Varister that feeds the rectifier that feeds the inverter that is the problem. Open her up and there's the Varistor black as the ace of spades. Easy fix right? Wrong. The bastards have potted the damn thing in some kind of "epoxy" the likes of which I have never seen. You can't chip, cut or dissolve this stuff in any solvent I can find.

 

[ldjessee]

And if there are any of those who can get there hands on the packs (i.e. from wreckers) they will probably try to do that. But Tesla probably won't. They'll pop in a new one and send the old one off to Straubel because that route is the most cost effective one.

If Munroe is right the battery will be part of the basic structure of the car. It will be made of pretty tough stuff.

I have an air handler for which I chose the ECM blower motor option (mistake). This failed. Everyone in the HVAC industry (and plenty of other people too who aren't including me) know that when these motors fail 99% of the time it is the Varister that feeds the rectifier that feeds the inverter that is the problem. Open her up and there's the Varistor black as the ace of spades. Easy fix right? Wrong. The bastards have potted the damn thing in some kind of "epoxy" the likes of which I have never seen. You can't chip, cut or dissolve this stuff in any solvent I can find.

I guess that if Tesla is going to recycle the battery packs, they will make it easy enough to break down for their process.

Structural does not mean indivisible. The front casting, battery pack, and rear casting will all be structural, but I am going to guess that they will come apart, because repairing one from an accident will be need to be done. Cast aluminum is not easy to repair.

Yeah, I have seen that done by companies who purposefully do not want you to repair things and the cheapest way to keep it from failing even earlier is to put it in a block of epoxy. Then you have to replace all the components they put in the epoxy, not just the one that failed.

 

[ajdelange]

Munroe, who has considerably more knowledge of these matters than I do posits that the pack will consist of cells embedded in a block of epoxy with coldplates. I'm guessing they will just pop the battery out, replace it and send the old one to Straubel who will shred it and go from there.

 

[ldjessee]

Munroe, who has considerably more knowledge of these matters than I do posits that the pack will consist of cells embedded in a block of epoxy with coldplates. I'm guessing they will just pop the battery out, replace it and send the old one to Straubel who will shred it and go from there.

At Battery Day, Tesla said they would be bringing in house their battery recycling.

 

[ajdelange]

J. B. Straubel is one of the founders of Tesla. He is still on the board or in some advisory position. Thus the fact that he founded Redwood does not mean that it is totally independent of Tesla. Thus I would have no trouble perceiving Redwood as the recycler as being "in house".

 

[Crissa]

Elon also said on Battery Day that they were looking at a material that is different than the currently approved. Which I think is different than the epoxy used in, say, a Zero Motorcycle's structural battery pack.

So we really don't know what they're looking at. I would think they're looking something that isn't specifically adhered to the cells themselves, but he did say it was a structural layer.

-Crissa