Cybertruck FSD brain

[lancethibault]

I read that Tesla, and several other auto industry companies, (to include at least Ford, Volvo, and Mercedes) are suing the US gov't over Chinese import tariffs associated with car parts. In particular Tesla is suing over what it describes as the brain of the Model 3 self drive function.

If the Cybertruck goal, as stated by Elon, is to "...to kick the most amount of ass possible with this truck.” then, if at all possible, lets diverge from it being reliant on Chinese tech to to kick said asses.

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[TheLastStarfighter]

I read that Tesla, and several other auto industry companies, (to include at least Ford, Volvo, and Mercedes) are suing the US gov't over Chinese import tariffs associated with car parts. In particular Tesla is suing over what it describes as the brain of the Model 3 self drive function.

If the Cybertruck goal, as stated by Elon, is to "...to kick the most amount of ass possible with this truck.” then, if at all possible, lets diverge from it being reliant on Chinese tech to to kick said asses.

Good luck finding chips that aren't made in China.

 

[lancethibault]

Good luck finding chips that aren't made in China.

Thanks. What a well thought out and informative comment. Useful in every way adding value to the conversation. #influencer

I'm not looking; I'm asking Tesla to. I'm not even saying the other big truck manufactures don't do the same. I'm just asking Tesla to be better. They want to make the environment a pillar to stand on wrt their real purpose. Besides being a constant thief of intellectual property...that I'm sure Tesla would like to protect on some level, Chinese industry is notoriously bad for the environment (albeit cheap).

I also assume (probably irrationally) that Chinese produced "brains" as it was described for the M3 contain more risk of being hacked or contain some level of unintended tracking s/w. Maybe I've seen too many movies about what happens when self driving vehicles get hacked. For this often described apocalyptic truck, let's go the extra mile to help ensure our coveted FSD does not become a liability.

As FSD becomes more of a reality and more popular across all vehicle platforms from high end luxury to entry level affordable, securing it will become vastly more important.

Lead from the front Tesla.

 

[Crissa]

The point stands, most chip production is in China, even if it's not owned by the Chinese.

Those factories spewed poison, and it's taken decades to suck it out of Silicon Valley. We still have areas which are basically mounds of clay as we keep rainwater from impinging into the contaminated soil, and can't build even apartments atop them.

China was all like, 'we don't care' so the big chip manufacturers jumped there in the 90s.

-Crissa

 

[lancethibault]

The point stands, most chip production is in China, even if it's not owned by the Chinese.

Those factories spewed poison, and it's taken decades to suck it out of Silicon Valley. We still have areas which are basically mounds of clay as we keep rainwater from impinging into the contaminated soil, and can't build even apartments atop them.

China was all like, 'we don't care' so the big chip manufacturers jumped there in the 90s.

-Crissa

Sounds like the "it's always been this way" argument. So I guess we shouldn't ask or even bother to bring it up. Especially since Tesla is known for doing things by way of the status quo right?

 

[ajdelange]

It better not be the computer chips they are getting from China. Chinese computer chips send everything you do back to Beijing.

 

[Crissa]

Sounds like the "it's always been this way" argument. So I guess we shouldn't ask or even bother to bring it up. Especially since Tesla is known for doing things by way of the status quo right?

Unless you're going to pay for them to reopen their factories here, and figure out how to get them to continue to upgrade them... Well.

It's not a simple problem.

-Crissa

It better not be the computer chips they are getting from China. Chinese computer chips send everything you do back to Beijing.

Then I have bad news for you and whatever device you're using to get here...

 

[Dids]

I believe Elon when he says the goal of Tesla is to transition the world to sustainable transportation. So intellectual property theft would not be a worry for Tesla since that would mean someone else is trying to do the same thing. (Indeed Tesla makes it's patents available for anyone to use).

The China boogeyman fear is irrational, Chinese culture and history is very introverted and holds a long history of foreign interference. Look at it form their perspective. England once fought a war and forced them to allow their citizens to become drug addicts. America invaded and occupied portions of their cities of Shanghai and Tiajin for nearly 100 years. Japan invaded, no need to mention what they did. Can you blame them for not allowing a modern invasion of foreign corporations that use the country and it's people but holds it's knowledge to itself so that when it's done with China it can just leave and China has nothing but pollution.
Tesla has a fully foreign owned factory in China and that is a first, probably because they are the first to not try to screw the Chinese.

 

[TruckElectric]

Good luck finding chips that aren't made in China.

Samsung has a foundry in Austin, Texas

 

[Crissa]

The US in a previous century had the same sort of reputation for ripping off inventors. We didn't invent the train or car or airplane or film, but gosh we were good at copying and making it better. Or cheaper, at least.

-Crissa

 

[TruckElectric]

I believe Elon when he says the goal of Tesla is to transition the world to sustainable transportation. So intellectual property theft would not be a worry for Tesla since that would mean someone else is trying to do the same thing. (Indeed Tesla makes it's patents available for anyone to use).

"Tesla’s Patent Pledge presents companies in the electric vehicle field with a tremendous opportunity, but one that also carries some substantial risk. Agreeing to abide by the Pledge could significantly curtail a company’s ability to protect, defend, and assert its own intellectual property. A company should weigh these implications against the benefits of using the technology before deciding to take advantage of Tesla’s offer. If the company does decide to use Tesla’s technology, it should put processes in place to ensure that it does not violate the conditions of the Pledge and, as a result, lose the protections that it provides." LEXOLOGY

 

[Luke42]

if at all possible, lets diverge from it being reliant on Chinese tech to to kick said asses.

The Shenzhen / Hong Kong metro area is the world capital of electronics manufacturing.

It really is the best place to get electronics built.

Even if you build your own electronics factory in the US, your supply chain will still stretch to Shenzhen because they have all of the companies which support electronics manufacturing.

I work for a consumer products company, and part of my job involves working with the factories to get stuff manufactured. One of the critical components that nobody thinks about is the test fixture which is used to test our product at the end of assembly line. That device is made by a company in Shenzhen, and then copies are shipped to our engineering office in the US (where we develop the software and do the systems integration) and also to our contract manufacturers (in various places mostly within driving distance of Shenzhen -- but they could be anywhere).

This is before we're even talking about components and things like pick-and-place machines.

A previous employer made their initial product using US electronics manufacturing, and they just couldn't get the costs down to consumer-product levels. The wholesale cost was about what the retail cost should.have been. The US electronics manufacturing base is set up for small quantities, not volume production.

If you absolutely gotta hafta make this stuff in the US for nationalistic reasons, you're going to need a decade or two of sustained investment without much return to build a smaller electronics manufacturing hub. That basically means the US government (or private investors) would have to throw money away for a couple of decades in order to build this capability, and the United States does not have the political will or long-term planning ability to do that. Anyone with any direct experience with this industry can see that tariffs and swagger are no substitute for investment.

But that's OK. Worldwide supply chains are a good thing. Everyone participating nation is enriched by global trade. The only reason my colleagues and I have jobs is because of this global trade, so I'm onboard with it.

I wouldn't want stop the release of the Cybertruck while we build American electronics manufacturing. That would be a net loss of American manufacturing capability.

P.S. If you want American electronics manufacturing capabilities, let's do build that in parallel with the CT. I'd love to build (and own) part of that value chain, but investors (especially SV-style tech VCs) simply aren't interested in capital intensive low margin businesses like this. They're looking for those 10,000-to-1 payoffs, not a 1.1-to-1 payoff YOY. Until that changes, CN/HK/TW contract manufacturers will be better, faster, AND cheaper.

 

[lancethibault]

This website is filled with dream sheet wish list requests for the CT. Some realistic today, some not. But make a request that the FSD "brain" not be manufactured in China, and it's met with more cynicism then most other requests.

Maybe I should have phrased the opening post differently.

I'm not asking what is possible today...nor do I think is Tesla. I'm asking what direction do we want to go? I'll concede it will be more expensive if produced in the U.S. But it's one part of an optional add on, to a $50k - $80k truck.

The gist of my question is if given the choice, and given equal quality product, would you rather have the "brain" made in China or the US?

 

[JazzMan]

Thanks. What a well thought out and informative comment. Useful in every way adding value to the conversation. #influencer

I'm not looking; I'm asking Tesla to. I'm not even saying the other big truck manufactures don't do the same. I'm just asking Tesla to be better. They want to make the environment a pillar to stand on wrt their real purpose. Besides being a constant thief of intellectual property...that I'm sure Tesla would like to protect on some level, Chinese industry is notoriously bad for the environment (albeit cheap).

I also assume (probably irrationally) that Chinese produced "brains" as it was described for the M3 contain more risk of being hacked or contain some level of unintended tracking s/w. Maybe I've seen too many movies about what happens when self driving vehicles get hacked. For this often described apocalyptic truck, let's go the extra mile to help ensure our coveted FSD does not become a liability.

As FSD becomes more of a reality and more popular across all vehicle platforms from high end luxury to entry level affordable, securing it will become vastly more important.

Lead from the front Tesla.

The supply chain is an issue if critical components are being produced in China. It is a fact that China has injected malware or other nefarious software onto chips they manufacture. Very nefarious software. Think along the lines of what we did to Iran’s centrifuges.
Very nefarious. Agree Elon needs to be really careful here.

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

This website is filled with dream sheet wish list requests for the CT. Some realistic today, some not. But make a request that the FSD "brain" not be manufactured in China, and it's met with more cynicism then most other requests.

Maybe I should have phrased the opening post differently.

I'm not asking what is possible today...nor do I think is Tesla. I'm asking what direction do we want to go? I'll concede it will be more expensive if produced in the U.S. But it's one part of an optional add on, to a $50k - $80k truck.

The gist of my question is if given the choice, and given equal quality product, would you rather have the "brain" made in China or the US?

Given the choice, I would absolutely want the product made in the US. I would even pay extra for it, as I think the Chinese pursuit of economic dominance is possibly the single biggest threat to our global society.

Whether Tesla should or could do it is another topic. Virtually all chips are designed here and then manufactured there. Their relatively small size for value makes shipping ideal. It would be really hard to make it work financially. Then again, Tesla did just buy a lithium claim, so they don't do things normal.