Cybertruck FSD brain

[Dids]

it has to do with the repatriation treaty between the United Kingdom and China. Hong Kong was previously a British colony after the a first Opium War and on a 99 year lease.HK was returned to China in 97 or 98 with the proviso that it be self-governing (keeping their Western-style democracy). It was called a One Country, 2 government policy (if I am not mistaken). Lots of Hong Kongers fled before repatriation knowing the Communist government would eventually change their minds. See current events.

That's right. A 100 year lease but in total a 156 year occupation of Chinese territory. Did you know that the 100 year lease didn't include language that after it's over the lessee gets to demand additional concessions? Even TheLastStarFighter's rebuttal that there is no Chinese victim says that they "conceded" to allow fully owned foreign factories in their country to get Trump to relax the American trade "WAR".

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[ajdelange]

That's not really possible for most chips.

I keep forgetting that on the internet one has to be very, very literal. Attempts at humor often go astray. No, of course a quad nand gate can't call home. But you may be aware that there was much concern about allowing US carriers to install Huwawei 5G equipment in the US because it is known that the Chinese government does collect intelligence via this sort of Trojan horse .

 

[ldjessee]

The supply chain is an issue if critical components are being produced in China. It is a fact that China has injected malware or other nefarious software onto chips they manufacture. Very nefarious software. Think along the lines of what we did to Iran’s centrifuges.
Very nefarious. Agree Elon needs to be really careful here.

China did to Iran's centrifuges? Every security researcher I know and trust says that Stuxnet has the earmarks of a US & Israeli joint project. Delivered over USB thumb drives. The evidence is in the code.

And the US has been caught tampering with and spying on international communications as well as pushing for and financing the over throw of legitimate governments (like say, Iran). Stones and glass houses and all that.

 

[Crissa]

China did to Iran's centrifuges? Every security researcher I know and trust says that Stuxnet has the earmarks of a US & Israeli joint project. Delivered over USB thumb drives. The evidence is in the code.

It's called an analogy or example.

-Crissa

 

[ajdelange]

The US would never do that. "Gentlemen don't read each others mail." - Henry L. Stimson

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

I'll need a cite on that.

But if China raised their GDP per capita to the US's... They would have over 80 trillion in GDP. The rest of the world only has about 65 trillion. So that's pretty close.

That's not a threat. That's a hope. Can you imagine 1.4 billion more people buying iPhones and playing Xbox and watching Marvel movies at the same prices we are?

If they did, the US's economy would balloon.

I'll need a cite on that, too. China invested a huge amount in 2007-2010 into building an industry to attract foreign investment in their EV market. It wasn't walled off. Tesla has been selling cars there since the beginning. They didn't have the money for the Gigafactory until 2018 and the success of the model 3 in the US.

-Crissa

It was walled off.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...ll-foreign-ownership-auto-industry/523289002/

 

[Crissa]

It was walled off.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...ll-foreign-ownership-auto-industry/523289002/

...But they could still sell their EVs in China. And local partnerships for new industries is common for China to require. See also, the thread about the US and the UK forcing China to allow them to sell under the threat of guns. It was even called 'gunboat diplomacy' here in the US. It was not good. Hence their modern policy.

This isn't new, or different. Your cite doesn't prove your statement, "Electric car companies were allowed access first in 2018."

-Crissa

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

...But they could still sell their EVs in China. And local partnerships for new industries is common for China to require. See also, the thread about the US and the UK forcing China to allow them to sell under the threat of guns. It was even called 'gunboat diplomacy' here in the US. It was not good. Hence their modern policy.

This isn't new, or different. Your cite doesn't prove your statement, "Electric car companies were allowed access first in 2018."

-Crissa

He said Tesla built the first factory. Foreign companies couldn't own car factories in China until 2018. He said something along the lines of it being because they respected Chinese culture. That's not true, it was the result of trade negotiations and electric car companies were the first to gain access. Traditional makers still can't own factories there, but will be able to in 2022.

 

[Luke42]

I keep forgetting that on the internet one has to be very, very literal. Attempts at humor often go astray. No, of course a quad nand gate can't call home. But you may be aware that there was much concern about allowing US carriers to install Huwawei 5G equipment in the US because it is known that the Chinese government does collect intelligence via this sort of Trojan horse .

A networking system is very different than a chip.

Being concerned about a communications system phoning home is reasonable, because communicating is what it does, and ensuring that it communicates as specified (and only as specified) is part of validating the thing.

Being concerned about a "chip" is very different because the functionality provided by a chip varies so much.

I've had my hands on both networking systems and chips a lot over the decades, and it's hard for me to pretend they're the same thing, even rhetorically, just because they're both made of electronics.

It's worth mentioning that China isn't the only nation which may (or may not) trojan communications systems:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...de-factory-show-cisco-router-getting-implant/
This did enormous damage to Cisco's reputation worldwide, even though they don't do anything wrong. The devices were intercepted in transit and tampered with by a 3rd party (the US government, in this case).

It is reasonable to consider that something similar is happening with Huawei equipment (or if Huawei trojaning it themselves).

But it is also reasonable to consider that the equipment might be fine, and that the concern in the public sphere is more about politics than technology. Things like the US-CERT announcements used to contain technical details exploits and how to counter them. Since 2017, though, and many their announcements just contain lists of "bad" nations without any supporting detail -- which is far less useful and far less credible.

At this point, I don't trust either China or the US to tell me the truth on this one these days. Swagger is no replacement for substance.

I made a personal pivot from large-scale IT into the embedded systems world, so I can let other people worry about most of this stuff now. But it's hard not to be pedantic about it.

 

[ajdelange]

Being concerned about a "chip" is very different

I wasn't worried. IT WAS A JOKE!!!

 

[Crissa]

He said Tesla built the first factory. .... Traditional makers still can't own factories there, but will be able to in 2022.

That's not all he said, but this is a good point, too. EVs are ahead of ICE in the queue.

-Crissa

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

That's not all he said, but this is a good point, too. EVs are ahead of ICE in the queue.

-Crissa

He said "Tesla has a fully foreign owned factory in China and that is a first, probably because they are the first to not try to screw the Chinese. "

I was explaining that no, it is because fully foreign-owned factories weren't allowed. It's fairly straightforward.

 

[Crissa]

He said "Tesla has a fully foreign owned factory in China and that is a first, probably because they are the first to not try to screw the Chinese. "

I was explaining that no, it is because fully foreign-owned factories weren't allowed. It's fairly straightforward.

What I was replying to was:

...concession for Trump easing the trade war was to allow foreign car companies entry. Electric car companies were allowed access first in 2018, all manufacturers will be allowed in 2022.

What was written was 'entry', not 'fully foreign owned factories' even if that's what was meant. There's a bunch of missing words there, apparently.

-Crissa