Why no HUD? (On any Tesla?)

[Deke]

Very sorry for your loss and unfortunate accidents.
This is why FSD is so important. Once out of beta and beyond, all vehicles will have this and there will not be the unfortunate losses of life, or much much lower. The computer does not get distracted and drives .... responsibly for lack of better term?
I too thought HUD would be nice to have, but I have to accede to Dids' first hand knowledge and can see how it may be distracting and problematic.
My wife has a M3 and I don't find glancing at center screen any different to glancing down at the speedo in my current truck.

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[Deke]

I'm not too interested in the HUD or no HUD, but would pay extra for an additional screen behind the steering wheel like the M S has.

 

[alan auerbach]

Because heads up displays are a gimmick. They are harder to read than a dashboard display with increased focal time ( it takes longer to look at a hud than it takes to glance at a dashboard display and report the information displayed), I worked for Army RDEC and participated in studies on subject. They require brightness greater than ambient hindering eye dark adaptation, even in the day time they are at a brightness that causes eye adaption making the rest of the view dimmer. They distract attention, while providing low relevance information, how often do you really need to know your speed? For that you end up with a constant speed display in your relevant field.
These shortcomings can be overcome. For focal time focal length can be lengthen nearer to relevant field but that makes the information look like it's on the car in front of you and it gets lost.
For brightness the field can be rapidly darkened like 3d tv shutter glasses, highly impractical for a large windshield and causes other issues for anything other than straight on visibility.
For distracted driving... Only display relevant information... Use an AI to decide relevance?

The end result was that vehicle hud did not improve driving experience and did not improve driver situational awareness.

Guy and Les appear to be on opposite sides but they're both completely right.

One objective of the Research Development and Engineering group was to see if the design and use of HU displays by the Air Force (without which high-performance, narrow-cockpit fighters could not show enough info to the pilot) should be applied to Army machines (which, since the disbanding of the Army Air Force, have been land-based). The conclusion was "probably not," mostly for the reasons given. (Multi-function displays were another matter.)

While Teslas are marvels of technical design, the weakest area in all models is the human-factors engineering of the secondary controls and especially the displays. It's as though they engaged various kinds of engineers -- but not ergonomists.

 

[firsttruck]

GMC Sierra 1500
RAM 1500

Very sorry for your loss and unfortunate accidents.
This is why FSD is so important. Once out of beta and beyond, all vehicles will have this and there will not be the unfortunate losses of life, or much much lower. The computer does not get distracted and drives .... responsibly for lack of better term?
I too thought HUD would be nice to have, but I have to accede to Dids' first hand knowledge and can see how it may be distracting and problematic.
My wife has a M3 and I don't find glancing at center screen any different to glancing down at the speedo in my current truck.

How important having your eyes on the road differs by environment. A divided highway is very different from doing 30-40 mph in dense urban area where a person or animal might appear at anytime.

I think FSD is important and hope it is ready soon. I think it is close.
But even after FSD is fully ready there are times when I want to drive my car myself.

 

[firsttruck]

GMC Sierra 1500 truck
RAM 1500 truck

The HUD in this new GMC pick-up truck is astounding
By John Brandon January 29, 2019
https://www.techradar.com/news/the-hud-in-this-new-gmc-pick-up-truck-is-astounding

2021 Ram 1500 has new tech options
Tech upgrades include new full-color HUD, digital rearview mirror and trailer reverse steering control
Byron Hurd
Sep 2nd 2020
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/09/02/2021-ram-1500-updates/

 

[Gvardaman]

I did get used to the center display In my Mini Cooper, though it also had a small binnacle behind the steering wheel that helped.
I have never had a HU display, so I appreciate that it might be one of those things that, once you get, you realize isn’t as great as you hoped.
I do think of it as a “high-tech” option though and was surprised it wasn’t an option for Teslas.

As stated before, with FSD it may not be as critical that the driver remain as laser-focused on the road. Then again, if the car is driving, having a display out in front might encourage a driver to stay engaged and if it blocks visibility or distracts, maybe it is less important? Perhaps it would only engage with FSD?

 

[alan auerbach]

I did get used to the center display In my Mini Cooper, though it also had a small binnacle behind the steering wheel that helped.
I have never had a HU display, so I appreciate that it might be one of those things that, once you get, you realize isn’t as great as you hoped.
I do think of it as a “high-tech” option though and was surprised it wasn’t an option for Teslas.

As stated before, with FSD it may not be as critical that the driver remain as laser-focused on the road. Then again, if the car is driving, having a display out in front might encourage a driver to stay engaged and if it blocks visibility or distracts, maybe it is less important? Perhaps it would only engage with FSD?

Guy, I agree that the issue is not HUD or no-HUD. Jeff recently mentioned NEED, and that's my point. Let me conjure up a scenario.

Elderly couple, Lee and Dee, are driving their new Tesla on a deserted road. Lee suffers an attack; Dee reaches over to steer to the side, helps Lee into another seat and heads to the nearest hospital.

Dee's ordinary drivers licence, earned a half-century ago, allows operating any car or light truck. Dee has driven many different models, because all have displays and especially controls that are somewhat standardized to the extent that handling any vehicle was intuitively obvious. For instance, every steering wheel and brake pedal works the same way. When they'd rent a car, Dee would easily do the driving without instructions from the renter even though the model was unfamiliar to them.

But this is a Tesla that Dee first has to figure out how to move forward. Once moving, a tunnel requires headlights that Dee can't figure how to turn on. They get through, and now there's a downpour so Dee pulls over -- to wait for the rain to stop or to learn how to turn the wipers on.

Lee doesn't make it to the hospital. Tesla's potentially deadly issue won't get solved by installing an HUD.

 

[Dids]

Guy, I agree that the issue is not necessarily HUD or no-HUD. Jeff recently mentioned NEED, and that's my point. Let me conjure up a scenario.

Elderly couple, Lee and Dee, are driving their new Tesla on a deserted road. Lee has an attack; passenger Dee reaches over to steer to the side, helps Lee into another seat and heads to the nearest hospital.

Dee's ordinary drivers licence allows operating any car or light truck. Dee has driven many different models, because all have displays and especially controls that are somewhat standardized to the extent that handling the vehicle was intuitively obvious. Every steering wheel and brake pedal works the same way. When they'd rent a car, Dee would easily do the driving without instructions from the renter.

But this is a Tesla that Dee first has to figure out how to move forward. Once moving, a tunnel requires headlights that Dee can't figure how to turn on. They get through, and now there's a downpour so Dee pulls over to wait for the rain to stop or to learn how to turn the wipers on.

Lee doesn't make it to the hospital, and Tesla's potentially deadly issue won't get solved by installing an HUD.

That scenerio also works in an airplane. Dee doesn't know how to fly. Now they both don't make it. Dee! It's time for you to fly!

 

[alan auerbach]

That scenerio also works in an airplane. Dee doesn't know how to fly. Now they both don't make it. Dee! It's time for you to fly!

There's a difference. Say you have a private pilots licence. Heck, let's make it a commercial licence, and you've logged 5,000 hours flying every model of single-engine (we'll keep this simple) that's come out of a factory. (And unlike road vehicles, aircraft controls and displays have long been standardized.)

Now, as an experienced, well-trained pilot with an advanced licence, a similar new model comes out that you're asked to fly. Legally you simply can't; you are unlicenced to fly that model. Means you're not legal or insured. Get caught and at the least you're done flying.

Before you can fly a model on which you have not been "endorsed" (successfully checked out) by a qualified teacher, you have to undergo dual training and verification, and your licence has to indicate this. Even to fly a model on which you are endorsed, if you have not flown for a few months you need a check-flight.

In short, a pilots licence is highly specific whereas a drivers one is general. All I'm saying is that difference should be reflected in road-vehicle "cockpit" design.

 

[OneLapper]

Guy, I agree that the issue is not HUD or no-HUD. Jeff recently mentioned NEED, and that's my point. Let me conjure up a scenario.

Elderly couple, Lee and Dee, are driving their new Tesla on a deserted road. Lee suffers an attack; Dee reaches over to steer to the side, helps Lee into another seat and heads to the nearest hospital.

Dee's ordinary drivers licence, earned a half-century ago, allows operating any car or light truck. Dee has driven many different models, because all have displays and especially controls that are somewhat standardized to the extent that handling any vehicle was intuitively obvious. For instance, every steering wheel and brake pedal works the same way. When they'd rent a car, Dee would easily do the driving without instructions from the renter even though the model was unfamiliar to them.

But this is a Tesla that Dee first has to figure out how to move forward. Once moving, a tunnel requires headlights that Dee can't figure how to turn on. They get through, and now there's a downpour so Dee pulls over -- to wait for the rain to stop or to learn how to turn the wipers on.

Lee doesn't make it to the hospital. Tesla's potentially deadly issue won't get solved by installing an HUD.

Errrr.....

"Tesla, turn on headlights"
"Tesla, turn on wipers"

Dee may be old, but she watches Lee like a hawk since his 'fling' with that 26 year old waitress.

 

[alan auerbach]

Errrr.....

"Tesla, turn on headlights"
"Tesla, turn on wipers"

Dee may be old, but she watches Lee like a hawk since his 'fling' with that 26 year old waitress.

"Tesla, turn on headlights"
"Tesla, turn on wipers"

Yes, when Lee's offspring (a consumer lawyer) asked Dee, "Were there any last words?" the answer was:, "Listen carefully, to turn on the lights or wipers, what you do is ... it hurts ... all you do is .... aghh!"

Given the power of a drivers licence, vehicle cockpits should respect the phrase "intuitively obvious." (The scenario did not indicate that Dee and Lee were a she and a he -- it was a waiter.)

 

[Dids]

"Tesla, turn on headlights"
"Tesla, turn on wipers"

Yes, when Lee's offspring (a consumer lawyer) asked Dee, "Were there any last words?" the answer was:, "Listen carefully, to turn on the lights or wipers, what you do is ... it hurts ... all you do is .... aghh!"

Given the power of a drivers licence, vehicle cockpits should respect the phrase "intuitively obvious." (The scenario did not indicate that Dee and Lee were a she and a he -- it was a waiter.)

I thought they were both dudes.

 

[Crissa]

Gotta say, headlights haven't been in the same place on my cars over the years. Sometimes they're on a stalk - but is it a rotate or a flick? Did the instruments light up or not? Did they have an automatic mode, and is it two clicks or one to activate them? Where is the speed? Is it in big friendly numbers that lag behind or a dial with some unknown graduation?

C'mon, having the instruments behind the wheel are not a big deal. Especially on a car that does those things for you.

-Crissa

 

[alan auerbach]

I thought they were both dudes.

Ambiguous on purpose. These days, indicate that the driver's male and the passenger female and they'll come after you with pitchforks.

 

[alan auerbach]

Gotta say, headlights haven't been in the same place on my cars over the years. Sometimes they're on a stalk - but is it a rotate or a flick? Did the instruments light up or not? Did they have an automatic mode, and is it two clicks or one to activate them? Where is the speed? Is it in big friendly numbers that lag behind or a dial with some unknown graduation?

C'mon, having the instruments behind the wheel are not a big deal. Especially on a car that does those things for you.

-Crissa

Quite so, because there's no required standardization. But I think first-time-in-that-model drivers would figure out the lights and wiper controls faster in any car other than a Tesla.